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jeebateeba56 (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
wow i never knew that. they say the 190 was the most advanced propeller-driven fighter of the war...
brainman (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
Oh the Ta152 was certainly the more advanced fighter, I was just making the case that it wasn't in the same stage of production as the 109's. I'm not making the claim that the Bf109 is absolutely better than the Fw190's either. I was merely commenting in response to folks who thought the Fw190 made the Bf109's obsolescent, which wasn't the case. The 109 remained competitive throughout the war and built the careers of the highest scoring aces of all time. Technology leapfrogs. Same on both sides.
pramboy74 (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
The ta 152c came into service the same time as the k-4 and i stil believe was supeior. I just believe the fw had the better all round package, wide undercarriage, great visibility, power,armament and speed. The british copied the cockpit lay out and other features when they designed the hawker tempest. The RAF realised early on just how superior the fw was to what they had which moved on the deleopment of the spitfire IX and griffons engined variants, and Hawker with typhoon and tempest.
pramboy74 (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
the 262 wasn't rushed into service, it was ready in 1942 but hitler wanted it used as a fighter bomber, and delayed it by a couple of years.
brainman (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
Right, hence the qualifier "towards the end of the war" in my comment. The Bf 109K-4 was faster than the Fw 190D-9 which which in turn was much faster than the Fw 190A-1, and the K-4 also had prototype models which could reach even higher speeds. The Ta 152H-1 was certainly as fast as you claim but it was in such little numbers that it really couldn't be considered a fully active mass production fighter (hence the second qualifier, "active").
pramboy74 (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
Ok for starters the FW-190 A-1 was capable of over 400 mph in 1941 and was superior than the best 109 models at the time.Secondly are you forgetting the late model 190's? The long nosed ta 152H-1 was capable of 472 mph rated at 40 000 feet.
brainman (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
easily a match for the 190's -fix.
brainman (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
The Bf 109K-4 was actually faster than the Fw 190D-9 (about 450MPH vs 440MPH respectively) towards the end of the conflict and hardly anything prop driven could catch it in a climb. Literally, it left most fighters in the dust. In fact, the K-4 is, or rather should be, on the shortlist of highest performing (active) fighters in WWII overall. In the hands of a skilled pilot, the K-4 was easily a match for the 109's and their opposition as well.
brainman (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
Cool story, bra.Either way that doesn't detract from the spectacular achievement that was acquired with those units. And the point still being that even with technologically inferior aircraft and being outnumbered doesn't it doesn't dictate the outcome of the conflict.
HerraTohtori (January 1, 1970 at 12:59 am)
Brainman, the Finnish Brewsters were the prototype B-239 models, not Buffalos. Buffalos were the production model Brewster B-339's, or F2A-2's depending on designation practices, which had increased armour and slightly bigger engines and thereby increased weight, reduced maneuverability with a meager increase in speed.The Finnish Brester B-239's had good maneuverability, were delightful to fly and were never referred to as "flying coffins", even against superior performance Russian planes. |